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Forums :: Shadow Aura :: Last-Minute Acts

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MintMan

Posts: 4061
Member #1

May 11, 2005 18:29
E-Mail Web Site Master Account Battling Dragons Shadow Aura Endless Night's Dream R.E. League Reply w/ Quote Edit Post

  Okay, I had a few battles ending last night, and I happened to be on the compy during the Late Show's commercials. Well, I happened to notice that one of my battles was reacted to.
  
  Here's the thing: it was stagnate for days. Earlier that day -- not even that much earlier -- it was unacted in. All the sudden, right before it ends, stuff happens! Well, with only minutes left, I responded, but then I got curious... so I waited around.
  
  Lo and behold, the bugger tries to act at midnight to beat me out for the last action. I know full-damn-well that this bugger could have acted sooner; they were just trying to steal the win by acting as close to midnight as possible.
  
  
  I was still able to pull off a quite-literally last-second victory, but the point still remains: acting late should not be a strategy, people! I feared this sorta thing would happen, but I thought my battle-extender would be in place first. This is just down-right sad...
  
  
  PS: The offender was Foshi. Bad on you, Foshi.
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

May 12, 2005 24:41
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  Hmm...maybe a timer per move should be initiated?...IE 36 hours per move along with the five-day limit, else you instantaneously lose on time...dunno.
  
  By the way, on the new table thing that shows deployed, tiles controlled, and dead, shouldn't it be "defeated" not "dead"?
  
  EDIT:
  Oops, I just made another [stupid] suggestion, which I know you loathe and the posters of which you very much desire to poke with a pointed stick, Mints...sorry! *runs away shouting and screaming for mercy*
  

  LieutenantEagle
  President of the SMFC
  Super Mario Fan Club
  -----------
  All your base are belong to us.
  
  
  
  [Editted by LieutenantEagle on May 12, 2005 24:46]
MintMan

Posts: 4061
Member #1

May 12, 2005 8:51
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  "Defeated" would extend the column space even more than it is right now. Besides, as has been stated more than enough times, no monster can have an actual "dead" status as they would be removed from the game altogether.
  
  
  As for your strange timer idea... Idungettit. Not everyone gets on every thirty-six hours, thus the five-day time limit. It was made to be flexible to an individuals schedule; this still does not even come close to addressing last-minute actions as the five-day limit still exists, and all someone would have to do is plan their thirty-six around midnight the final night.
  
  
  Like I said here and in other places, I am implementing a battle extender. Simply put, any action within the last twelve hours of battle will offset the end time by twenty-four hours to allow for a reaction.
Lymfada

Posts: 187
Member #214

May 12, 2005 19:05
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  Cool,
   When you do Ill start up again, got frustrated when I lost a few battles on that. This is not meant as a flame but it was no fun to lost that way, so I basically just pulled everything out. Before anyone says it I know its no fun to lose but on this type of technicality it takes the fun out of the game at least for me. Back on the subject I look forward to when you/if you impliment that last minute thinggy
  
Lym
  What does not kill you makes you stronger
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

May 12, 2005 23:03
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  I believe the battle extender is a far better idea. I was thinking chess there when I said thirty-six hour time limit - as in, thirty-six hour gong and five-day guillotine was the thing passing through my mind. That's what happens when you're the Commissioner of Teaching for Chess Club Smile
  
  A hundred posts made by Lymfada!! I know that, though post count at RE Forums doesn't count for anything, congratulations anyway.
  
  * gives Lymfada a virtual Cookie to celebrate hundredth post *
  

  LieutenantEagle
  President of the SMFC
  Super Mario Fan Club
  -----------
  "And one of the things we've got to make sure that we do is anything. -President Dubya
  
Foshi

Posts: 33
Member #158

May 12, 2005 23:13
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  Kero,
  
  As the subject of your rant, I understand the unfairness that last-minute acts can cause on a battle, and I am sorry for any people that my actions may have caused grief to.
  
  However, let me also state that I am no mastermind; I learn from other people's strategies. I have been on your side of the fight a few times as well, only to have victory swept under my feet.
  
  However, to show my good will and appreciation towards this game you (and your cohorts) have created, I would like to propose a fair solution along with my sincere apologies.
  
  Why don't you (if this is possible) set the program that checks for victories/losses to run at a random time between 11:00 PM and 1:00 AM EST? That way, there can be no anticipation of the end of the battle: everybody must act as if their actions will be their last, as they will have no idea on when the battle will end.
  
  Thanks in advance for listening. I hope I was of help, and can continue to be of help in the future. I wish to be able to make this great game a more enjoyable experience for everybody.
  
  And let's not forget that, when the first internet was created, the debuggers at UCLA abused the system, crashed it, and then fixed it based on it's flaws. It is because of it's abusers that the flaws were found, and today the internet is as reliable as it is. Sure, the abusers may be a pain in the neck, but the end result may turn out to be a better experience for everybody.
  
  Again, thank you for your time.
  
  [EDIT]
  While were talking about what's fair and what's not, don't you think that, if you lose a battle, you shouldn't be allowed to march immediately back in? Strategic victories are no good if the loser is able to flatten you with a better-prepared batallion the next day!
  
"Yesterday it worked.
  Today it is not working.
  Windows is like that."
  ~Haiku
  
  
  [Editted by Foshi on May 12, 2005 23:32]
Michael

Posts: 54
Member #224

May 13, 2005 3:42
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  This is in reply to the 11:00 PM and 1:00 AM deadline idea. All this will do is change the time people act to just before 11. It's possible that a person can reply before the deadline but I'm guessing that not all that many people play at these times. Enlarging the gap might work but then there will be people who normally play at 7-8 PM who could miss out on their chance to act. The battle extender idea is probably the only thing that would work fairly. Until then we have to rely on people's honesty and good-heartedness.
  
  Oh and about the unfairness due to attacking again immediately after losing. I would say that numbers in this, as in most strategy type games, are representative. For example a day could be equivalent to a week and therefore an army would have time to recooperate. Anyway, do you really want this GAME to be that realistic? I believe the idea is a reasonably simple game which won't require incredible amounts of thinking and won't dominate peoples lives.
  
  [Editted by Michael on May 13, 2005 5:06]
MintMan

Posts: 4061
Member #1

May 13, 2005 9:24
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  For the aforementioned reasons (and because I already said I had a solution to it that simply needed to be implemented), no, the random time is not going to be implemented. Not only would that be a bugger to put in using Crontabs, but it would really go against the non-randomized nature of TSC in which everything is pretty static.
  
  
  Still don't know why you just wouldn't try to act normally in your own battles to prevent things from coming down to last minute if you know personally how frustrating that could be...
  
  
  
  Yeah, the immediate-remarch is annoying and has already been mentioned on the chopping block of things to be added in other places. I think defeated members get a one-day lock on going back to an area, giving someone else ample time to try and invade.
  The worst of it is when someone retreats and immediately goes again. I guess I was quite the fool when I thought people would fight with honor Laughing
Cheetarius

Posts: 353
Member #10

May 13, 2005 17:38
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   I've got two battles where the owner of the land retreated and came back about 20-30 minutes later. So far I haven't seen much change in battalions, but meh, dunno. I've got several things about the game that bug me, such as a few conflicts here and there, but nothing as annoying as the retreat-attack. Angry
  
- Cheetarius, Wondering What This Button Does...
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

May 13, 2005 18:12
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  Umm, Mints, I beg to differ on the retreat and return one.
  
  See, when Draggy attacked one of my lands, I wanted to withdraw one unit and bring in another one. Unfortunately, I did not heed the fact that you could NOT do that...so you can understand I was quite angry when I saw that all of my units suddenly retreated!
  
  ...I would have probably held my ground, too, had it not been for my greedy will to get an extra LV2 creature into the fray...silly me. However, when I re-invaded, Draggy had no problem defeating me, so...yeah. Perhaps confirmation screens would be nice on troop withdrawal screens, similar to battle retreats. I mean, had it appeared in big red letters on my screen, "Are you sure you want to give up control of this area?" I would most certainly not have made the blunder I did.
  
  ...All goes again to prove that Draggy has now held two victories over me due to my own stupidity, in the King of Springtime Tourney and at...the area, undisclosed for fear of locating my other lands and being attacked.
  
LieutenantEagle
  President of the SMFC
  Super Mario Fan Club
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  Truth -->
  <-- Bush
  
Lymfada

Posts: 187
Member #214

May 13, 2005 20:03
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  On the retreat then attack again, if you are going to battle someone and you dont know what they have most people will attack to "feel" you out. Then attack once they know what you have. I see no issues with this tactic.
  
Lym
  What does not kill you makes you stronger
MintMan

Posts: 4061
Member #1

May 14, 2005 24:05
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  'Tis still a little dirty. People can do it, but I hate that they clog up the system. Just a day's break is all I want. If they want to return after that, have at it. Despite what some of you believe, some areas can go twenty-four hours without being invaded.
  
  
  As for retreat, LE, I do believe that highlighted letters are displayed at the top notifying you of your choice. I am sorry that it is not red, but if you missed this, it is hardly my fault. I do as much as I can.
This area is a battlefield. You must either stay and fight or run.
  Send reinforcments and defend this area.
  Stay and defend without sending reinforcements.
  Retreat your forces from this area -- fill out the below.
Besides, I have already proven that red text so large that it distorts layouts can and will be ignored by people. I just can't win Frown
  
  [Editted by MintMan on May 14, 2005 24:07]
Zedd

Posts: 286
Member #76

May 14, 2005 6:22
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  Um... Won't this new system mean that practically ALL fights will last until noone can act any more? Or was that one of the points of implementing it?
  
- Zedd i Randir, Lord of the Storm

  "So it is said that if you know yourself and know others, then you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles. If you know yourself, but do not know others, then you will win some and lose some. If you do not know yourself and do not know others, you will be imperilled in every battle" - The Silver Sparrow Art of War, Sun Tzu
MadGoblin

Posts: 1515
Member #2

May 14, 2005 6:37
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  The time limit was never meant to be, "Act fast or get screwed" or in any way meant to cut a battle short. The limit had express purposes:
  
  1) To end a battle that one of the participants has disappeared during. If someone just up'd and quit, they battle would still end without participation.
  
  2) To end battles with useless powers. We've all used Ukabatons and know that their ability rarely can be used. So, since a battle otherwise would not end with it still as an option, the limit would stop that chance.
  
  So, yes, the extender does make it "actions shall occur as long as both sides are willing to make them", because it'd be stupid otherwise, as it was.
  
"But you'll kill us all!"
  "But ice cream cake!"
  - The Simpsons, Treehouse of Horror XV
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

May 14, 2005 19:34
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  Ummm...not all of us have used Ukabatons, MadGoblin.
  
  And sorry for my re-invasion, MintMan - it's the first and last time I'd do that (besides I think I waited some time...) I misinterpreted the phrase "stay and fight or run", thinking that it would be possible to change your battalion before battle.
  
  I mean, I retreated not from the page that you quoted, but after using the "Withdraw Troops From this Area" form. Ah well...we all make mistakes.
  

  LieutenantEagle
  President of the SMFC
  Super Mario Fan Club
  -----------
  "And one of the things we've got to make sure that we do is anything. -President Dubya
  
msanis

Posts: 454
Member #7

May 14, 2005 21:17
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  Wavey Mouth
  
  ...whoops. It seems I've done that "re-invade" thing quite a few times. I was mostly doing it as a means of gaining EXP though. Fast EXP = quick level ups = better monsters for conquering other areas. Heh... I never really thought it was bothering anyone. Afterall, it'd be quick EXP for the opposing team as well... Shifty Eyes
  
  I guess I can see some problems with that. I probably should've switched lands around a bit. I mostly went to certain areas mostly due to the fact that the area itself was advantageous to my strategy... thus seemingly a good area to invade. Not to mention, it just seemed so much easier to click invade on a battle-field I knew, rather than looking over other lands... Boggle
  
No purpose, No goals, and quite pointless.
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

May 15, 2005 24:06
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  Umm...this does not exactly pertain to the topic, but I do not feel like starting a new thread.
  
  Ash10 just invaded one of my lands, and I went to defend it. After placing my unit, though, I clicked "Go to defend your area", and...Ash10's commander is not deployed, my unit is not deployed, I only see an elemental layout yet somehow Ash controls eight tiles and is winning, whereas I am controlling zero tiles and losing.
  
  Is this a side effect of putting two leaders on the same spot? Also, can it be fixed somehow, or are the pseudo-leaders just never going to appear?
  

  LieutenantEagle
  President of the SMFC
  Super Mario Fan Club
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  "When you have your own money, it means you've got more money to spend."-President Dubya
  
draggy1234

Posts: 486
Member #97

May 15, 2005 24:19
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  LE, apparently both you and Ash10 put your leaders on the same spot. Also, most likely you put down a nymph leader and Ash10 put down a general leader. I think that when leaders are put down initially at the start of a battle, any overlapping tile patterns will cancel out on the involved tiles and they will remain neutral.
  
  Also, when that happens, then the leaders themselves "cancel out" and will not appear on the field, causing both to be considered defeated. However, I think that, if Unscurs are involved, they can still use their abilities from the spot they were placed in, even though you may not see them. Hope that clears up the confusion.
MintMan

Posts: 4061
Member #1

May 15, 2005 1:11
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  Dang, Eagle. Where have you been? I thought that was common knowledge by now, 'specially for a forum-goer.
  
  Besides, hippy, I think everyone uses Ukabatons. I mean, it is a troop. Unless you explicitly don't collect it and never run out of troops, you are going to use it eventually.
  
  
  Constant attack-retreating to level up? Come again? I'd think a monster would die before leveling up by that method. I mean, rapid losing racks up more than one-hundred and fifty wounds on a monster, and only about five of such blows are needed to a monster's health to kill it off.
  
  
  The actual best way to get experience I shall tell you all right now, and I assure you that it is the only way you will ever get an elder (2,500 score): not using a troop. Winning and bringing a troop to battle yields ten score, but only the smallest knick to their wounds. You are going to need a few of those under a monster's belt in order to raise its score up that high. Slow and almost impossible, yes, but elders are supposed to be like that.
  
  I wonder when all the mature's are gonna start kickin' off... The first wave has gotta be due for dyin' pretty soon, 'specially at the rate some of you blokes fight.
draggy1234

Posts: 486
Member #97

May 15, 2005 9:02
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  Uh, Mints, a question on that topic. Would it still jeopardize the chances of getting an elder if one deploys it as the last troop after the opponent deploys all of his/her ten in order to avoid a loss/retreat?
  
  EDIT: (Holy shoots. A record 16 notifications for me just now.)
  
  [Editted by draggy1234 on May 15, 2005 9:06]
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