Thinking of starting a Pathfinder game. This would hopefully be my first successful game that I've run. However, having been in games as a player with other powergamers, who have access to every splatbook under the sun, and seen the kind of negativity that can generate among players, what advice do you have for an inexperienced GM for dealing with it?
"You got Marin! Is this your big chance?" ~ from The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening.
MintMan
Posts: 4061
Member #1
Oct 26, 2011 18:56
Never heard of Pathfinder, unsurprisingly enough. I barely knew anyone who played good ol' DnD, although I guess a lot of other RPGs are popping up into limelight what with 4.0 and all.
Seeing as how this game seems to claim to be an extension/alternative of 3.5 (is it? I can't see d20 anywhere and I is scart), my guess is that it is a rule-monkey's heaven, which is why those sorts of blokes you are complaining about would be a problem.
One, you are the GM: you can house-rule anything (unless Pathfinder has an anti-house-rule rule). Fudging things behind the scene is a prominent role of a GM, whether it be to prevent a party from dying from way too lucky of enemy roles to stickin' to a min-maxxer by just so happening to have all of those obscure weaknesses come into play~!
I mean, in DnD, all of the expansion books are at the GM's discretion. Just 'cause a player brings it doesn't mean it is law. Your game, your setting, your say. Just make sure not to be a douche about this fact. Use the "Things don't work like that in this setting." Because of my hatred of the original halfling art in 2.0, I created entire setting without the creatures. (Fur on the feet is one thing, but that was hair -- and not the normal kind of hair, either )
A good game at its RP-finest should rely on rules very little. Ever see the original DnD rule book? Sparse like crazy. Most gameplay is logical, and the rules are just meant to make a character's action make sense. Instead of wave after wave of hack-and-slash battles, a chance few encounters with interesting elements work much better.
What does this have to do with anything? Powerplayers do not think like this. They want everything to be numbers. They want a computer game, or 4.0, if the horror stories I've heard about it are correct. Well, this isn't A-to-B, mechanical drudgery -- this is roleplaying. And all the splatbooks and XP and magical long swords in the world won't be able to make them play smarter. Exploit that weakness, if all else fails.
"Guster, you've got to grow up. People have sex, and they kill each other. That's the real world -- not some magical feelings place." ~ Detective Lassiter, Psych
Rook
Posts: 497
Member #112
Oct 27, 2011 5:55
Pathfinder is 3.5+.
As for handling them, there's a number of things you can do. First off, make it RP heavy. This discourages people from going munchkin on you, and makes the experience more engaging. Second, communicate with your players that breaking your game will be met with a swift kick in the ass. From the Tarrasque. It's important to set a few ground rules. Third, don't go epic level.
Lastly, learn the tricks of the trade. If they start multiclassing like a mofo, enforce the experience penalties that come with. Or (as a simpler solution) ban or limit multiclassing. Watch out for Rogues and Pallies. Be VERY careful about how much money you give out; overly wealthy players WILL run amok of your campaign.
Aside from that, just hold your ground, don't be a pushover, and be prepared to make sudden adaptations in your campaign.
"You know what? A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political-correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups. Besides, gangster rappers don't need defending, they've got guns for that!"
--Yahtzee Croshaw, Zero Punctuation
Lunar_Mage
Posts: 119
Member #148
Dec 2, 2012 18:04
Currently running my game now. I am making a world map, and have the windows paint program stretched to the limit as far as vertical size goes. Anyone know of a cheap as free paint or otherwise artwise program that would be better than the standard "paint" "program" that comes with windows?
"You got Marin! Is this your big chance?" ~ from The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening.
You also get some spiffy stuff like layers and having more than one file open at a time -- always a plus.
(Also, even tho' it is a year late, how are you supposed to multi-class like a mofo into a Paladin? DMs are supposed to limit that sorta stuff from a logical and story point of a view. The PC would certainly have some 'splainin' to do!)
Actually, I just meant to look out for Rogues and Paladins in general. Paladins in Pathfinder don't smite on one hit. When they smite, they smite EVERY HIT AGAINST AN ENEMY UNTIL IT IS VERY DEAD. If you take rules from some of the old 3.5 books (which are compatible), you can make an epic-level Pally (~30) that cranks out several THOUSAND damage per turn. Epic Level Handbook for the win.
As for multiclassing, there are some pretty nasty builds you can come up with. Duelists, for instance, add their level to damage on what is called a Precise Strike (if I'm recalling that correctly). They can do a Precise Strike with light or one-handed piercing weapons. On horseback (or Rust Monsterback if your campaigns are as silly as ours), a lance becomes a one handed piercing weapon. With the right Feats, you can make it do x3 damage on a charge. It becomes pretty damn devastating.
You can also do Eldritch Knight and Dragon Disciple and be a pretty impressive combat caster, as you keep a decent BAB as well as the stat boosts from the Dragon Disciple. Plus, there's a feat called Arcane Strike that lets you add a point to damage for every five caster levels you have.
We used to see who could make the most broken character. I usually won.
By the way, the Advanced Players Handbook is pretty fun. Alchemists are AWESOME. Ultimate Combat is pretty good too, but then again, I generally favor weapons over magic. It does introduce a Gunslinger class tho.
"You know what? A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political-correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups. Besides, gangster rappers don't need defending, they've got guns for that!"
--Yahtzee Croshaw, Zero Punctuation
MintMan
Posts: 4061
Member #1
Dec 3, 2012 19:44
I never doubted that certain breaking class combinations were possible technically, but DMs are explicitly instructed in the DMG to say "Um, no" to willynilly class changing. It isn't like a videogame where you just hit a button and say "I'm a this now!" The more specific the class (especially those new Pathfinder and thus horrible ones with probably little play-testing or little care and an emphasis on being more fit for a Michael Bay movie than a Tolkien book), the more they are supposed to be logically restricted in multiclassing.
Minmaxing has been done for a long time, and is only ever a problem when the DM 1) allows it, and 2) doesn't prey upon the disadvantages that come with.
That, and isn't the whole idea of Pathfinder to be more of an RPG videogame than an actual RPG, thus is actually wants such overpowering to pander to non-real-RPG players?
"I know that will be obvious to some people but sadly stupid people have internet too." ~ Maffew of Botchamania
MadGoblin
Posts: 1515
Member #2
Dec 3, 2012 22:37
Alchemists awesome? We playing with the same rules? My DM (and most co-players agreed) that the Alc was one of the wimpiest classes. And Gunslingers were almost barred from use, for comparison. So far in, I've been pretty pushed around. Granted, my DM (I guess it's GM, technically, but screw the technicality) seems to push us pretty wall-to-wall like a never-ending dungeon crawl, so maybe that's souring its use. Brew a potion? Not a chance!
Anyhoo, the three campaigns I'm currently in (yes, three) seem to have a nice balance of combined PC and DM indifference, where neither really strives to overdo/restrict the other. Of course, I know making the players be happy with what they have is not a finger-snap-get task.
"Trapped like a cabbage in a cabbage trap!"
- Geeker, Project G.K.R.
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