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SailorSassyStar

Posts: 419
Member #19

Nov 7, 2004 13:00
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  From reading other posts I thought you guys would be interested in these.
  
  It's a trilogy by Jerry B. Jenkins. The first is Soon: The Beginning of the End, the second is Silenced: The Wrath of God Descends, and the third one isn't out yet that I know of.
  
   It takes place about 50 years in the future. It's about how 9/11 and the war on terror and everything triggered WW III. They decided that religion was the cause of all war so all religions were internationally banned. Things were peaceful, but strange "miricles" start to happen and the christians believe that the apocalyse is coming. They start forming underground groups and the government tries to expose them. That's the National Peace Organization's job, since christianity has become synonimis with terrorizim.
  
  It is very interesting and I've barely been able to put them down, which is saying a lot for someone like myself that doesn't like to read. At first I didn't want to read it because it sounded like such a touchy subject. I can only see it from one side, but it doesn't seem to preach or try to side one way or another with religion. I think it would be a worthy investment of your time if you get the chance to look it up.
MadGoblin

Posts: 1509
Member #2

Nov 7, 2004 15:32
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  Wow, those sound... kinda stupid, actually.
  
  Religion isn't the cause of problems, just the extreme religions. That really only applies to the excessive Taliban regime. I don't see how Christianity really has anything to do with it. The pope isn't going around the place saying "Kill, kill, kill." Christianity shuns murder of any life while the put-to-the-extreme Islamic psycho-babble promotes it. That's the real problem.
  
  Anyhoo, I hardly think that the world would "ban" religion, 'specially in the US, since it's one of the founding factors behind the constitution. In fact, freedom of religion is a big thing fought for to be gotten or kept in a lot of nations.
  
  I mean, granted, it seems like it would make since, but the author just seems to be playing on people's fears of the moment to get them to buy his story's setting. I mean, it may seem like it makes since on the outside, but the stitching is loose. One tug, and the thing falls apart.
  
  However, the whole miracle part does seem interesting. I would say I'd look into them, but I still have a pile of books I haven't gotten around to reading over the past ten years... them first.
  
Lair of Mad Goblin - Because sanity is a chore.
boyachi

Posts: 1158
Member #92

Nov 7, 2004 18:47
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  That was the same belief about the pope during THE CRUSADES!!!
  I have my own complaints about religion, which I'm not going to bother fueling here, but there is an old quote, by whom I forgot.
  "Trying to get rid of religion is like trying to remove a nail with a hammer, the harder you hit it, the deeper it goes."
  Why this guy didn't use the other side of the hammer to pull the nail out, I have no Idea, but you get the point. Religion is a running popular thing to do, once the "fad" runs out, then it will stop, no other way about it, unless all the people supporting it die, which the way things are going, I'll prolly die before that happens. A holocaust of all religon(the first was worst enough) is not something I'd support. I'm not that Metternich.
  
The New Dawn has risen. Are you the one to unlock it?
MadGoblin

Posts: 1509
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Nov 7, 2004 22:33
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  I miss Ryuujin. He constributed to debate, not blankly ranted a bunch of garbage.
  
  The "first" Holocaust (ie, the only) was about race, not religion, twit. The Arian race was not a religion but, shock of shocks, a race! Jews are a race, Judaism is a religion. I know these two are more or less viewed as a blurred line nowaday, but there is a distinct difference.
  
  Lastly, religion is not a fad, it is the only thing we live for. If you do not have a belief in something after life, then you should either kill yourself now because life is pointless and painful and not worth all the trouble if nothing is gained, or go with the biological purpose and promote eugenics, which then would involve all that ethnic clensing, which is just what the Holocaust was about. So, you see, not only was it not about religion but actually performed in void of it.
  
  And the whole thing with the Crusades was when the church was corrupt. That wasn't religions fault, religion wasn't corrupt, just a bunch of "officials". Don't be blaming faith for what a couple of jackasses do to fuel their selfish desires.
  
  And, apologies to SSS for turning her otherwise well meaning topic into a slap-fest. However, I just can't pass up putting someone in there place. I mean, really, dude, that was just so far off in der I had no other choice.
  
If this made sense, I'm obviously not trying hard enough.
MintMan

Posts: 4043
Member #1

Nov 7, 2004 22:57
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  Yeah, c'mon, do not turn a post about good literature into another debate I shall have to lock 'cause it makes me pain to check the forums with the twenty replies added since my last visit.
  
  Besides, what you are talking about, Boy, is religious nut-bags that in fact do not follow religion. If someone actually follows a faith, they do no wrong. That is kinda what religion is about. Y'know, love thy neighbor and stuff? Oh nos! What kind of crap is that? Relijin should be banned!
  If you are going to hold not following religion against religion, well, that hardly makes any sense at all, now does it?
  
  Dems books sound mighty sweet. Sound like the sorta thing that should become more required-ish reading in our high schools today, maybe learn us up some better children
  At least this is a sign your school can't be all bad... just mostly Tongue
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

Nov 8, 2004 1:16
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  * uses FieryCutter on boyachi for saying that religion is a fad that will die out *
  
  Although I am not quite religious, I respect all religions and have nothing against their being around. And I don't think they're a "fad", but rather another method of teaching and guiding human conduct, a method that extremists, unfortunately, twist to their malevolent purposes. But I shall say no more on the topic or this post will become locked.
  
  A great book to read is Animal Farm by George Orwell. I don't know if everyone would be able to understand the book, but, seeing as I am from the former USSR, I was quite able to understand what exactly was being mocked in the book. (Snowball and Napoleon = Stalin and Trotsky).
  
  Also, has anyone read Fahrenheit 451? I don't have the book, but I know that it is something about a world in which books are banned or something.
  
  And, well, of course, great literary classics such as War and Peace are excellent to read - even though the English translation is pathetic (they use "prince" where it's supposed to be "knight"). That's precisely why I read the book in Russian...but as for you guys I guess you have no choice but to read the rather-poorly-translated version.
  

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boyachi

Posts: 1158
Member #92

Nov 8, 2004 1:45
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  What I was trying to get at was if people actually threw away their own pride over their religion to understand others, maybe we'd get somewhere. And yes I do know that not just jews were killed, but gays and others too. I care not enough(for this topic)to check it up. Its the end result of love and peace that i am going for. And if anyone dare say i support the or another holocaust I am going to go ape$#!+ on them.
  Anyway, I have read animal farm and some of F451, as well as brave new world, the giver and something involing a main character called Karellen. Enjoyable. With fun lil tidbits of inner meanings.
  Edit:Not stuff you want to finish at night and stay up thinking about.
  
The New Dawn has risen. Are you the one to unlock it?
  
  
  [Editted by boyachi on Nov 8, 2004 10:47]
draggy1234

Posts: 485
Member #97

Nov 8, 2004 15:05
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  I've read Fahrenheit 451 twice for my school work. Personally I like it, although I've heard that some people may have trouble following the story. I guess a piece of advice I would give is to sort things out on paper to help make more sense out of the story.
  
  EDIT: Oh wait, did you read it yet? My last sentence with the piece of advice was intended for if you haven't read the story yet, but if you got it then you can ignore that.
  
  [Editted by draggy1234 on Nov 8, 2004 15:07]
Lugiatrainer

Posts: 398
Member #20

Nov 8, 2004 15:18
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  I've read Animal Farm and read/skimmed F.451
  
  Haven't read Soon or Silenced, but they're by on of the guys who wrote the Left Behind series, and I know IT was good, even though I'm lost somewhere in book...12, I think.
MintMan

Posts: 4043
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Nov 8, 2004 18:21
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  Huxley's Brave New should be required reading for all schools what with this age and technologies we dawn upon. So many people do not realize that even tho' the sciences are new, the ideas are not.
  
  I mean, isn't that what all science fiction is really about? Well, that and Billy Shatner Dot Mouth
  
"Is that scotch?" - Nora
  "We're lawyers; what else?" - McCoy
SailorSassyStar

Posts: 419
Member #19

Nov 8, 2004 19:02
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  I thought I was I going to be in doo doo for starting a topic that went wrong. Glad it got steered back on course. I finished the second one today and I was just wowed. I have to know what happens next, but I'm can't. >__<
  
  What exactly is Fahrenheit 451 about? I've heard of it a lot, but nothing actually about it.
  I can't say I've heard of those other books though...
  
  What MM said about required reading! There are tons of good books out there that I'll never find with good stories and meanings in them that I will never find and I'm stuck being forced to read crap?
   Last year I had to read Lord of the Flies which was about a bunch of snot nosed British school boys stuck on an island. The theme is that mankind is inherently evil. Then there was Tale of Two Cities, which nobody can convince me was worth while. Other than the letters the doctor wrote while in prision it was just long boringness. For crying out loud, it contridicts it's self multiple times in the first "sentence" which has to be in the running for the world's longest sentence. Oh, and better yet was The Crucible this year. She's a witch, burn her! Sweat Drop My teacher kept pronouncing it "crushible" too, which adds to the loathing.
  Sorry for the obsessive rant, but I just think that the current required reading is crap and the stuff that's been mentioned here has much more to offer.
msanis

Posts: 454
Member #7

Nov 8, 2004 20:21
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  Wow... never thought i'd see a topic like this around here!
  
  Faranheit 451 (literally the temperature in which paper burns)
  - In this world books are banned because it is believed that they give ideas that they cause sadness. The people of this world are basically mindless drones who watch some strange type of T.V. Fire Fighters here set fire to book and the houses which contain them. The main character is a Fire Fighter who begins to see the importance of books (after meeting a certain someone), and basically goes on a quest to end the bannings.
  
  
  
  To be honest, though; I didn't really like how the book ended. It is definently a book that gets you thinkning though. In many ways, the society in that book is quite similar to our own.
  
  
  
  
  Currently I am reading a book called "East of Eden" for school. I'm not really sure whether I like it or not just yet, though.
  
  
Why do I do this to myself?!?!
  
  
  [Editted by msanis on Nov 8, 2004 20:22]
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
Member #27

Nov 8, 2004 20:27
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  Right now we're starting to read Joy Luck Club in school. Do you think that's a good book? I'm starting to read it tomorrow.
  
  Oh, and I also read Lord of the Flies. Pretty sad how the children revert to being wild. Last year I also read Night by Eliezer Wiesel about the Holocaust, To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee, and Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare.
  

  LieutenantEagle
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MadGoblin

Posts: 1509
Member #2

Nov 9, 2004 10:47
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  Actually, that's exactly how it happens. If you have a child raised in absence of society, which we actually have several studied cases of due to very, very bad parenting ("I don't feel like taking care of this child, so I'll chain them in a room to fend for themself." Yes, this actually was a case I learned of in psychology class). You growl at people, spit on stuff for no reason, stoop down whenever you walk kinda like a monkey, you- well, I don't think the other details are really needed (or appropriate. ewww), but you really become an animal, for that's really what we are when we lose our morals and guidelines.
  
  Anyhoo, Animal Farm does rule. That's a good for anyone who says, "We should be communist, it's better." Anything by Swift is good, too, although a little bit out of date. He does trash humanity in general, however, for the majority really does suck.
  
"... it was full of bees."
  "Full of C's more like it. ... Sorry."
  ~ Lost, regarding a woman's shirt
Lunar_Mage

Posts: 119
Member #148

Nov 9, 2004 13:05
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  Let's see... I've read The Great Gatsby, Death of a Salesman, most of Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, Animal Farm, all of which I like. Some people have a problem with all the older English in Shakespeare works, but I usuallly find that if you take the time to sit, read, and just enjoy them, you shouldn't have any problem with them.
  
  And of course, there is The Hobbit, and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Big Smile
  
"I'm sharpening my knife, kupo!" - Moguo, FFIX
Battalon127

Posts: 753
Member #25

Nov 9, 2004 17:36
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  The Crucible, BAH! We just finished reading it (twice) as well. Why twice? We were assigned the play form of it and forced to read it out loud. Assigning a bunch of juniors who read at the sixth-grade level to act? Anyhow, now we're watching the movie and, I just don't see how that many people could be so stupid. *looks around for lurking n00bs* Okay, they could, but that story still bugs me. What makes it worse is that it all actually happened (to a degree)!
  As for the others, LotR rocks, as does Animal Farm and 1984 (also Orwell). F-451 was a little hard to understand, but thats why I re-read books. Of course, all of these books I read of my own free will since it seems that schools have this big list of bad books to assign to kids to further their general hatred for reading. The only decent reading I do for school is through a program called Accelerated Reader, in which everyone can choose from a huge list of books (thousands, plus the ability to add your own) and take tests on them. Different books are given a certain amount of points based on their length and reading level and the teachers assign a certain number of points for each quarter of the school year. Get enough and you get an A. Pretty simple for someone like me.
  
"So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable." ~Christopher Reeve
LieutenantEagle

Posts: 953
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Nov 9, 2004 18:48
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  Ah, yes...children raised outside of society. The correct term, according to my psychology teacher, is feral children.
  
  I just got a list of books that my English teacher would recommend reading, 10-15% of which I have already read in either English or Russian. Now for the other 85 percent of them....
  
  ...Oh, ya, regarding detective novels, I've read each and every Sherlock Holmes story, includes The Lost Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
  

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VinnyD

Posts: 434
Member #9

Nov 9, 2004 19:05
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  On Nov 9, 2004 10:47, MadGoblin said:
  
Actually, that's exactly how it happens. If you have a child raised in absence of society, which we actually have several studied cases of due to very, very bad parenting ("I don't feel like taking care of this child, so I'll chain them in a room to fend for themself."

  
  I tend to stick more to transindentalist thinking that society is what corrupts, not absence of it. Not that complete isolation would be good, but the increased freedom and less dependence on others. It's a somewhat flawed and unfinished idealism, but I believe in it. Society and the group dynamics of the modern social structure are flawed too. Why is it that some of the smartest people feel they can't express themselves openly? That's part of the beauty of the internet, increased isolation or communication if you want.
  
Make like a tree, and get the F*** out!
  -Doc, Boondock Saints
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Blade

Posts: 362
Member #99

Nov 9, 2004 19:49
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  On Nov 8, 2004 20:21, msanis said:
  

  Currently I am reading a book called "East of Eden" for school. I'm not really sure whether I like it or not just yet, though.

  
  I have read that book. It's how do you say...different I havent really heard of any of these other books being talked about
  
  
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
  *Woah! What a ride!* !
  [Editted by Blade on Nov 9, 2004 19:50]
  MG's edit: can't stand ugly posts. wee, mod-abuse!

  
  
  [Editted by MadGoblin on Nov 10, 2004 11:58]
Kal

Posts: 79
Member #127

Nov 16, 2004 12:32
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  On Nov 9, 2004 10:47, MadGoblin said:
  
Anyhoo, Animal Farm does rule. That's a good for anyone who says, "We should be communist, it's better."
  

  
  I have to disagree, communism is an excellent concept, Orwell was demonstrating how the practice of the thoery is a bad thing. The pigs ended up disregarding animalism, which was a good concept. By tossing aside the 7 commandments, they could no longer be classed as animalists.
  
  F451 was a decent novella (I think is the correct term for it), though I agree, the ending was a let down. However, I found the logic behind that society very interesting - literature breeds difference of opinion so getting rid of literature will unite opinion. The metal dog was also pretty awesome.
  
  1984 has to be one of the best books available, it's just superb, though the chapter where Winston reads Goldstein's book was extremely tedious. If you ever get up to that part of the book, you can skip it all without missing anything vital at all.
  
  East of Eden, that was Steinbeck wasn't it? I read OF Mice and Men and hated it so much that it put me off Steinbeck. I may read The Grapes of Wrath one day...
  
  Brave New World is a horrible book. I despise it - the characters are flat, the style is only good for novelty value and the constant Shakespeare references make it seem pretentious. It does nothing for me, though it was oddly prophetic...
  
  Other books I would reccommend: Tess of The D'Urbervilles by Hardy (long-winded but well-worth the read) and A Farewell to Arms by Hemingway, which I'm currently half-way through and loving it, Little Women was a cute little story but a bit too sickly-sweet for my liking. War and Peace is on my 'to-read' list as well as Vanity Fair but the both of them are just so daunting.
  
  I've yet to read LotR (shock!) but I plan to one day, The Hobbit was decent though. Anybody else read poetry? If you do I'd suggest a strong dose of Philip Larkin - you can't go wrong.
  
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