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Forums :: Battling Dragons :: Help designing creatures topic!

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LeeTupper

Posts: 158
Member #42

Oct 7, 2003 22:14
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   Okay, well, I've seen people having trouble finding info on their creatures, and others (me) with trouble deciding on spells, despite knowing their creatures like the back their hand. So, ask for help here!
  --------
   Mints, I need help coming up with balanced spells for Alicanto. I try and try, but it doesn't work quite right.
   I'll go by stages.
  
  Egg:
  Shining Shell: Foe takes damage from a medium power light attack if they physically attack the egg in the two turns after using Shining Shell.
  Squirm About: Boosts Speed, Strike, and Agility minorly.
  Spot Glow: A decently accurate confusing spell, weak light hit.
  
  Fledgling:
  Molt: Eliminates statuses on self with a small recoil.
  Shimmer Wings: Innaccurate move that strikes with both light and avian and may cause confusion to the opponent.
  Forage: Boosts speed, virtue, and defense, but does recoil damage.
  
  Guide:
  Cliff Drop: Powerful Earth spell, one use per battle. (Um, Ems, what power would work? It doesn't seem that I can find a power lvl. that works well in theory.)
  Wing Glow: Medium power light spell, boosts own virtue and evasiveness (power and percentages... I have trouble working with someone else's battle system)
  Gorge: Decent power healing and boosts defense and arcane, but cuts speed. (not much trouble here, but I'm still having trouble with the exact percentages)
  
  Stats: Health: Slightly below average.
  Magic: Average.
  Strength: A good amount below average, but not pathetic. (It's a chicken.)
  Speed: Average
  Agility: Good
  Defense: A bit above average (metal accumulation in the feathers.)
  Arcane: Slightly below average.
  Virtue: Fairly good.
  Strike: Slightly below average.
  
  Specialties: Defense and evasion.
  Drawbacks: Bad long game strength (recoil, poor HP), sub-par strength.
  
  Elements: Earth & Avian, maybe metallic
MintMan

Posts: 4037
Member #1

Oct 8, 2003 16:23
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  Wow, what a good idea, Tupper. This oughta helps out people a lot.
  
  Okay, spells. Well, I dun think I ever listed what spell requirements are largely because I do not want people who want to make the new creature Zeus getting ahead of themselves You, however, are on point. So, here is the usual spell-nesses:
  
  Every creature gets three spells per form unless it is a three-stage creature. In that case, its first form only has two spells (if it received a third, it would only have it for about one level before changing form and losing the spell altogether).
  
  These are sorta new restrictions I made that are really good to think about
  
  Every creature must (eventually) get one spell that does damage (otherwise it would be worthless) and one spell that does not (otherwise it would have a whole lot of the same).
  No creature should have two spells that do very similar things. A creature should not have two spells that are nothing but physical attacks of different elements. One of them will have to have some additional effect tacked onto it. A creature should also not have one spell that reduces enemy attack and another that raises its defense; they are in essence pretty much the same thing (save their duration).
  
  Okay, not much for guidelines, huh? Now an actual explaination of spell effects:
  Spells have one element associated with them; no creature may have a Typeless spell.
  Spells can damage the opponent. They may do so on a physical (Strength/Defense) or magical (Arcane/Virtue) basis.
  Spells can alter the statistics of the caster or another. Strength, Speed, Agility, Defense, Arcane, Virtue, and Strike (not Health and Magic, pretty much) may be modified on a percentage system.
  Spells may Heal lost health or Cure ailments.
  Spells may inflict a negative ailment onto the enemy (such a Poison).
  Spells can effect all opponents on a side or all opponents engaged in battle (RPG only).
  
  And that... is.... it! See, spells are stored as strings. I know you are suggesting some pretty interesting things, Tupper, but that would require programming a lot of stuff that would really only be used by one creature. If this were a normal game, I would be all for it, but when I add a new creature to Battling Dragons, all I do is upload images and a data file of stats and spells -- the rest of the code remains untouched. I do not even have life or stat sacrificing in BD. I could add those two, but the rest of the stuff seems a little beyond the scope of this game.
  
  Here is how it works. When you think of what a creature does, try to think of it in terms of the seven battle statistics. For example, instead of paralysis, petrification, or freezing, Speed and Agility reductions are used (a la Basilisk). When Nidhogg Bickers, instead of Berserking an opponent, it reduces their Arcane and Virtue. I am even phasing out confusion pretty soon. Ailments are very unbalanced. When you modify a stat, it always works. Confusion can take multiple attempts to even afflict the foe, and even then, it sometimes does not pull through. Conversely, sometimes it works far too well! Hrimfaxi will soon simply reduce Strike.
  Poison is so far the only status condition I can think of that cannot be thought of as a modification to one of the basic stats. Regeneration is a skill, Dispelling positive effects on the enemy is a perk already in BD: DNA, and Magic Busting is the only other practical effect I can think of.
  
  Now into point values. It works like this:
  First stage: 20 Points for any spell.
  Second: 25~35 Points; statistic alterations at this point are usually capped at 25%
  Third: 35~50 Points; statistic alterations are usually 35%. A spell should only reach a total of fifty points when the creature is very magical (because then it can actually afford to cast it) or specialized at what it does.
  
  Points are the added total of every effect inside of a spell. That means damage, healing power, percentages altered -- they all stack up. They must always be in factors of five, and damage should never go below ten. Percentages should try to be either 10%, 20%, 25%, or 35% so that they go to 100% after multiple castings more smoothly.
  
  Now some suggestions:
  Having trouble getting the stats you want? You may not have to. Sacrifice as high a category as you would like for a creature and give it a stat-raising spell instead. This has to make sense, however, and should not be an instristic characteristic of the creature (like the lightning-swift Hippogriff not having a base Speed category to match). So long as the description is not too superlative, you should be okay (like giving Cerberus, who would probably end up never straying too far from averages, getting a Defense-raising guarding spell).
  Eggs can do anything. Take lots of liberties with eggs if ya got them. Try to stretch out as much use as possible from naming conventions (for example, you would not want every stage of a Peluda to have a flood attack -- Flood, Deluge, Wave? Tsunami? The synonyms get tired after a while!).
  Think of spells for one of the monster's forms? Well, use a suped-up version of that spell for its next form, or a powered-down version for its previous.
  If you are having a lot of trouble, dig deep. Nidhogg gets an entire family of attacks from its "wide, swift wings." The Monoceros is elusive and hard to catch -- agility ho! This is where literature helps a lot. Very common descriptions also work well with this method.
  
  Here is my theory at work:
  The Hippocerf has the hind-quarters of a horse and foreparts of a deer -- that is all. Well, hind-quarters gives it an equine kick. It is a symbol of hesitation, so it has a Speed reducer. It grows up, gets antlers, and suddenly it locks its for with a slowing, bestial attack!
  
  Garm is called a "blood-splattered" wolf, so it gets a spell called Splatter, which is just a bestial attack. Step down from splattering to shredding and its pup gets an attack!
  
  So.... yeah. That is what I do. Well, this went on for long enough. Think it over, why not? Questions ask when.
Zedd

Posts: 286
Member #76

Oct 10, 2003 2:21
Master Account Battling Dragons Shadow Aura Endless Night's Dream R.E. League Reply w/ Quote Edit Post

  You can have multiple elements for a spell? That could help, 'cos a storm is really made up of a few elements... at the moment, the Ryus spells will be something like...
  
  Carp
  Courage: defence raising spell
  ?: Aquatic physical attack
  
  Wakai
  Bravery: same as courage but stronger
  Virtuous Rage: Light magic attack, raises strength
  Storm: Lightning/wind/water magic attack
  
  Stormcaller
  Honor: Defence raising
  Divine Fury: stronger virtuous rage
  Tempest: powerful storm
  
  Anyone got an idea for an aquatic physical? I don't know 'bout stats yet... i'll work on them (along with getting you those carp pics, MM)
- Zedd i Randir, Lord of the Storm


  
  Ryu
: 3 pictures done
MadGoblin

Posts: 1509
Member #2

Oct 10, 2003 7:13
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  You know, its first stage should really be an egg. Most all three-formers are eggs at first, less Hrimfaxi (who only has 3 due to archaic game fashions that required all creatures to have three) and Taztelwurm (since it had a large degree of variance 'tween form and took a lot o' convencing, plus the fact that its half mammalian whidh is just easier as a no-egger). Just sayin'.
  
  Anyhoo, I thought, hey, I'm making of some creature(s). Why not throw out some train of thought for the nice people? Then I thought no, for I hate you all. But, after downing a box of Twinkies and Ding-Dongs, I don't much care anymore about blinding rage
  
  - RAICHO - (Lightning/Avian)
  The Nippon Thunderbird is a good example (I think anyways) for it lacks much any description at all. Generally, the only thing known about it is that its a thunderbird and that it makes terrible noise. Good enough for a start! (luckily, through intense searching, I was able to find it as a godly messenger and protecter. phew) Let's begin:
  
  - EGG
  Due to its electrical nature, the Raicho's egg is modeled after one of those electro-static globes. You know, the clear spheres with the currents running from the center electrode out to the surface and when you touch them your hair stands up? Yeah, those things. Of course, nothing ever says its eggs look like this. Then again, nothing ever says what the eggs look like plain. This is one of the few liberties you will ever be given with your monster (assuming it lacks description), so run with it!

      
  • Shrill (Avian)
    Reduces an oppo. Def. 20%
      
  • Shock (Lightning)
    20 pt Magic Attack

  
  - FLEDGLING

      
  • Shriek (Avian)
    15 pt Magic Attack that reduces Def. 20%
      
  • Lightning Strike (Lightning)
    35 pt Magic Attack
      
  • Heavenly Watch (Avian)
    Raises Vrt. 25%

  
  - MESSENGER

      
  • Cry of Thunder (Avian)
    25 pt Magic Attack that reduces Def. 25%
      
  • Summon Storm (Lightning)
    40 pt Magic Attack on all oppo.
      
  • Divine Mist (Avian)
    Raises your side's Vrt. 35%

  
  Of course, Raicho is a highly magical creature, so most of its spells can afford to pack a punch. Its entire godly protection spells all have to due with Virtue rather than defense for it guarded against thunder and fire. Plus, if the gods are tied with virtue, then what is? Something else to noot: Its magical shrieking attacks all reduce defense, despite damaging via arcane/virtue. This may seem a near worthless pair-up, but that's just how the creature would actually be. Sonics generally always tend to lower guard. Besides, in the RPG, when paired up with your human, it'd really shine. And that seems to be the trend of the 'cho, what with all its "all side" spells and what not. Of course, Raicho sucks, 'cuz it's hard to draw birds. So, here's another creature!
  

  - Peluda - The Shaggy Beast (Water/Poison/Serpentine)
  Peluda is a big, green Neo-dragon with tortoise feet, a long, powerful tail, serpent head, and hundreds of stinging hair-like tendrils draped over its body. Or, it can be a porcupine dragon. Which to choose? Both! Mixy-mixy! Anyways, it survived Noah's flood and hide for many years. It can fire its stiners from its body like spears, and its mouth can either spout venom, water, or a smoldering heat.
  
  - EGG
  Due to its spiky nature, the egg is covered in spines, a la urchins.

      
      
  • Stinger (Poison)
    10 pt Physical attack, 10 pt Poisoning effect
      
  • Survival (Serpentine)
    Raises Def. and Agl. 10%

  
  - HATCHLING

      
  • Tail Sweep (Serpentine)
    25 pt Physical attack
      
  • Wilting Breath (Poison)
    Reduces oppo. Str. 25%
      
  • Water Torret (Water)
    35 pt Magical attack

  
  - FORGOTTEN (no clue!)

      
  • Sting Volly (Poison)
    40 pt Physical attack on all oppo.
      
  • Searing Breath (Serpentine)
    Reduces oppo. Str. 35%
      
  • Deluge (Water)
    40 pt Magical attack on all oppo.

  
  ... Yeah, one of those should probably be of a different strength rating. But you get the point. And now, my hands are tired!
Lair of Mad Goblin - Why be sane?

MintMan

Posts: 4037
Member #1

Oct 10, 2003 13:55
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  Blutty Hel.... I was all preparing a huge reply for this when IE crashed Let us see what I can salvage....
  
  Sorry, but spells cannot have multiple elements. As I stated above, each spell may only have one element associated with it. This is due to both how the elemental variable is stored and the fact that most elements would end up canceling each other out.
  
  And no, Hrimfaxi does not have three forms because it is archaic; it has three forms because every monster should try. Two formers are weird and have strange text files. However, it is largely unavoidable for monsters that do little more than get bigger and meaner.
  Also, in the case of fishkies, if you can think of a form besides an egg, take it. Ryu can by all right start out as a Koi. Fish eggs are little more than strings or blobs of jelly, hardly fighting material but delicious on crackers.
  
  Also, what happened to the snake? I thought Japanese dragons, after one thousands years of living as a carp, changed into water snakes or some misbegosh before finally becoming a Dragon?
  *does a looksee*
  Hey, I found something new. I have read this before, too, but could not quite remember how it went down.
  Okay, the dragon egg looks like a large jewel. It then hatches into a water snake, which becomes a koai, or a dragon-carp, and then finally into a dragon. Now, this is for Chinese dragons, but Japanese ones are more or less the same thing. I know the dragon-carp is in there somewhere. The egg is kinda new to me....
  Well, it is your creature -- get researchin'! I have also found sources that say in Japanese artwork, the dragon's body is always obscured by water or clouds, for to gaze upon their entire body would mean death. Can anyone else confirm this?
  
  And Gobbo, it is okay for Peluda's two spells to have the same power. One is magical and the other is physical, so they are in fact very different. In truth, it should be the same way for the hatchling -- just thirty for each. Nothing has twenty-five power attacks in middle forms anymore, and thirty-five is supposed to be really really good.
  
  LESSON 2: Stats
  
  Stats are difficult to proportion correctly for any monster. Here are some good guidelines to follow:
  Health:
  This should be high for large monsters. Any sign of hardiness or survivability also constitutes to this score. Note that armor or scales does not contribute to this category; that would be for Defense. Undisputed: Bahamut
  Small creatures should lack health. Anything that is frail or not much of a fighter should lack it, too. This is also a good whipping-boy category to drain a bit in order to put stats someplace else.
  Magic:
  Magical creatures usually make themselves apparent. However, intelligent creatures or those that have some sort of continuous effect (like a deathly gaze) should also have high magic.
  Instinctual and semi-supernatural monsters should have low magic. Anything that lacks special powers should also lack here.
  Strength:
  Size can contribute to this some, but not too much. This should largely deal with a creature's ferocity and killing power. Blades and spikes can add to this, but should not be the sole determinant.
  Again, small creatures should not be as strong as other monsters. Anything with a soft body can also have lower strength. Incorporial and frail monsters also lack.
  Speed:
  A fast creature is typically described as such. How much can be the problem. Take hints from the freedom of movement that a monster is able to display. Undisputed: Sirin
  Slow creatures are those that are firmly planted into the ground, heavy, or covered in awkward armor. Bulbous or blobular creatures would also lack speed.
  Agility:
  Agile creatures should be those that can move unrestricted. Also contributing to agility are small size, stealth, invisibility, incorporeality (ghost form), and sometimes even luck. Undisputed: Kamaitachi
  Large creatures will be much easier to hit and therefore lack agility. Slow moving ones or those that cannot weave from blows, like quadrapeds, also should lack agility.
  Defense:
  Of course, armored hide will make a monster defensive, but there are more things to consider. Protrusions or a lethal touch or anything else that might deter a foe from coming into physical contact with a monster increases its defense.
  Low defense creatures will be spongy, soft, frail, weak, small, or just all around poor fighters.
  Arcane:
  Knowledge of secret things can come in many forms. The more intelligent a creature is, the higher its arcane. Magical abilitys also contribute. Anything associated with evil or the underworld will also be more attune to magical arts. Undisputed: Nidhogg
  Animal-intelligence or lack of any phantastic skills make for lower arcane. Good creatures will not necessary lack arcane as secret knowledge does not necessarily mean bad (although bad usually means secret).
  Virtue:
  Any holy, upright, or celestial monster will have virtue. If a monster is reknown as a healer or in some other way with helping, virtue is increased. Bravery can also contribute to this. Undisputed: Unicorn
  Low virtue is found on evil creatures. Not only that, but stupid ones as well. Fury and wrath are very unvirtuotous characteristics. Anything strongly unmagical might think about lacking here.
  Strike:
  This should be a good measure of a monsters fighting ability. Not only that, but any feature of good eyesight, alertness, or tracking makes for higher strike. Any sort of weapon, increased range, or being covered in protrusions make hitting a foe easier.
  Any creature that lacks much of any reach at all, such as a horse, should lack in strike. Poor fighting, clumsy, blind, or immobile monsters should also suffer here.
  
  Undisputed monsters are those already reserved to have the utmost in a given category; no others may ever match them. Stats work on a -10 to +10 rating from a base stat. Statistics above +5 are rare, and those lower than -5 are almost unheard of. Those ranges should only even be approached when the monster is something spectacular.
  
  If you cannot give a creature the stats you want, it may be possible to give it a spell that raises the given category. This must, however, make sense to the creature.
Zedd

Posts: 286
Member #76

Oct 14, 2003 5:23
Master Account Battling Dragons Shadow Aura Endless Night's Dream R.E. League Reply w/ Quote Edit Post

  I'll stick with carp, partly I've done two of the pics for it, but partly it seems to be the only thing that people are sure of. I'll probably change the courage/bravery/honor to virtue raising.
  
  Stats...
  Health: normal
  Magic: slightly above average
  Strength: normal
  Defence: normal
  Speed: slightly down
  Agility: down
  Arcane: slightly up
  Virtue: slightly up
  Strike: normal
  
- Zedd i Randir, Lord of the Storm


  
  Ryu
: 3 pictures done
LeeTupper

Posts: 158
Member #42

Oct 21, 2003 18:23
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  Okay, here goes nothing. I've found a scanner, and a picture of my concept alicanto should be sent fairly soon. I just want the go ahead before getting my pictures done.
  
  So, MM, feel free to change these a bit, or give anything a thumbs down. You are the designer.
  
  Egg
  Squirm: Boosts Speed, Strike, and Agility by 10%
  Shine: 10 Power light attack that cuts a foe's strike by 15%.
  
  Fledgling
  Molt: Clears of all statuses. Does 5% HP to self.
  Forage: Boosts Speed, Virtue, and Defense by 15%. May have recoil if you deem so fit.
  Shimmer Wings: 20 Power Light spell that cuts foe's Arcane by 20%.
  
  Guide
  Cliff Drop: If you feel up to putting the one per battle in: 60 power Earth spell. Otherwise, 35 power Earth spell. (Maybe it should be physical?)
  Gorge: Heals HP by 10% (?), and boosts Defense and Arcane by 25%, and cuts speed by 20%.
  Gold Glow: Only for valor above 60. 30 Power light spell that boosts Virtue and Agility by 30%.
  Silver Glow: For valor below 60. 25 Power light spell that cuts foe's arcane and strike by 35%.
  
  Just tell me if any need changing, and give cost suggestions (I stink at costing spells).
writer77

Posts: 409
Member #4

Oct 21, 2003 19:05
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  On Oct 21, 2003 18:23, LeeTupper said:
  
Silver Glow: For valor below 60. 25 Power light spell that cuts foe's arcane and strike by 35%.
  

  
  Now, I'm not sure, but I think 35% down on both arcane and strike would probably be a tad much. I mean, nidhogg's stat booster on the maximum level only gives 35% to one attack.... I didn't really look at it very in-depth, so if I mislooked something that made that not seem entirely too powerful... uh... sorry. Otherwise, you might want to tone down the attacks a little bit. (I assume that the other attacks were about the same, but the one that I quoted seemed to stick out to me.)
  
Endless Horizon: http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/verdegym
  "It looks like I'm going to die as I have lived.... completely surrounded by morons!"
  -Bl. Mage
LeeTupper

Posts: 158
Member #42

Oct 22, 2003 10:41
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   You're right, should be 30%. However, it should still be fairly good in effect, the ali' needs some kick-A effects because, quite bluntly, its stats are terrible. Decent defences and agility, but in everything else except for speed and magic, it is fairly lacking.
MintMan

Posts: 4037
Member #1

Oct 23, 2003 13:15
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  Well, yes, your costing is entirely buggered. Perhaps I should clarify something I said ages ago in this post.
  
  The point total of a spell is the added costs of its damaging power, its status-inducing (or -removing) power, its healing power, and the percentage change in a category (health, remember, goes by healing power and not percentages).
  
  So, when something reduces arcane by 35% and a whole lotta other stuff, it would not even be able to cast the spell! The magic cost would be to much.
  
  Also remember that percentages are applied every time the spell is cast; if a damaging attack reduces a category by 35%, it would be minimum at the third casting plus the damage. Way too much.
  
  Remember the simple flow pattern: 20, 30, 40. Those are what each spell should averagely total up to for each stage. There is more on this stuff in the first post I made.
  
  
  Okay, not onto talking about the attacks!
  Squirm: Boosts Speed, Strike, and Agility by 10%
  Bit much; it raises a total of thirty percentage points when first-forms can never stray from twenty.
  Also, is there anything much for the Alicanto and squirming? I mean, Nidhogg egg has Bounce and Shell because it is five years old, but what is this guys excuse? I know the egg does not actually have any description for it (or at least I have never found anything describing an Alicanto Egg), so this stuff has got to be improvised, but you usually try to take a vague hint from what it will become, like
  Shine: 10 Power light attack that cuts a foe's strike by 15%
  Good use of foreshadowing here. The mod would have to go down to 10%, but still good. My only question is why it reduces Strike. Alicanto has a guiding light in the darkness, which promotes vision, not obscures it (hence a Strike reduction).
  
  Molt: Clears of all statuses. Does 5% HP to self
  Again, the relation of this to Ali'? Once things hatch, there is no real reason to improvise anymore. Maybe it should have a lesser form of its Cliff Drop or something with its misguiding. You hardly played on that at all. The 5% HP, too, is thinking too far away from the MP system. If some monster has a spell, it is usually paid for in magic, not life. Trust me, removing status conditions is not something so powerful that it needs to be balanced by a loss of some sort.
  Forage: Boosts Speed, Virtue, and Defense by 15%. May have recoil if you deem so fit
  This is a forage-for-ore spell, right? Or are you trying to make this not like his advanced spell. Remember that you can make one spell an inferior version of a spell that is acquired in the future.
  Shimmer Wings: 20 Power Light spell that cuts foe's Arcane by 20%.
  Twenty power is good, but the cut is going to have to be 15% to keep it from passing thirty-five points (the maximum for a middle stage). Cutting Arcane, eh? I know light seems the banishment of it, but Alicanto is not exactly man, er, bird-of-the-year. The thing is pretty evil, what with luring people to their doom. In fact, just because he glows a bit might not even qualify him to be Light elemental. I mean, it is not like Ali' illuminates the caverns; it justs creates a faerie fire to be followed. These glowing things could just as well be Avian-typed spells.
  
  Cliff Drop: If you feel up to putting the one per battle in: 60 power Earth spell. Otherwise, 35 power Earth spell. (Maybe it should be physical?)
  I would definantly feel this should be physical; being a spell does not make it not so. It would just be a physical spell. Sixty is way too strong, one use a battle is way too useless, and thirty-five is way too weak. Forty-five would be a good value for this one.
  Gorge: Heals HP by 10% (?), and boosts Defense and Arcane by 25%, and cuts speed by 20%
  Let me see.... 10 + 25 x 2 - 20 = 40! That is a good stat-raising combination of values... yes yes. Arcane? It raises Arcane? I would have thought Virtue what with silver's ability to dispel evil spirits and what-not. You also might wanna consider tacking on the heal to this thing. My guess is that the rather malicious Alicanto will not have much in the Virtue and thus healing department, and since most status-alterations are used when battle first begins (and when damage has not yet been caused), it might be a lesser used addition.
  Gold Glow: Only for valor above 60. 30 Power light spell that boosts Virtue and Agility by 30%
  Silver Glow: For valor below 60. 25 Power light spell that cuts foe's arcane and strike by 35%

  The values are all wrong, but the ideas look like they are their. Again, I do not see how making oneself visible in the dark would make one harder to see/hit with that Agility raise. Since you have such insane percentages on this one (30 + 30 x 2 = 90 and 25 + 35 x 2 = 95 when the very extreme is 50), you could stand to lose one entire category raise, like the Agility and Strike respectively. Hmmm, you can reapportion these values however you want, but I would recommend a mix of 25 Power with 20% change (or vice versa). The rest of Ali's spells are pretty hefty, so I do not see this one reaching the fifty limit (plus the whole not-really-that-magical thing).
  
  
  Okay, Zedd, that basic arrangement of stats looks good. And Tupper, no creature has "bad stats". Every monster in BD, believe it or not, has the same added total of stats. You can get some combinations that seem poorer than others, sure, but none of them can mathematically be less than another monster.
  
  Okay, I really do not want to go into more depth about creature-making specifics with how long this post turned out to be. I shall just sit back and pray that the picture looks good, because this is the longest any creature has been said to be going to be made without any artwork confirmation, and pray because it seems that you have been putting a fair share of time into this monster.
  
  
  [Editted by MintMan on Oct 23, 2003 13:16]
LeeTupper

Posts: 158
Member #42

Oct 23, 2003 15:52
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  Okay, modifying spells. Picture should be sent by Wodensday
  
  Egg
   Glimmer: 10 power light spell, 10% strike cut on the foe.
   Fidget: 10%+ in Strike and Agility
  
  Fledgling:
   Shimmering Wing: 20 power avian spell, 15% foe's arcane (not evil, a blind rush for gold is what I think of) is cut
   Forage: Boosts speed, Virtue and Defense by 10%.
   Pit Hop: 30 Power earth type attack
  
  Guide:
   Cliff Drop: 45 power earth attack
   Gorge: Raises Arcane (gluttony=evil) and Defense by 25%, heals 10% HP, cuts speed by 20%
   Gold Glow: Only for valor above 60. 25 Power light spell that boosts Virtue and Agility by 10%.
   Silver Glow: For valor below 60. 20 Power light spell that cuts foe's arcane by 10% and strike by 15%.
  
   Okay, I'm rushed. I'll give the explanations later.
  ----------------------------------------------------
   Okay, maybe not tuesday. Blasted screwed up e-mail!
  Anyways, I finally figured out what it its middle phase would look like, so, all of the drawings will be complete, B & W, in a couple days, and this next tues, I can send 'em over, for approval. Then, I'll change them as you see fit, color them, and send the final versions to you.
  
  
  [Editted by LeeTupper on Oct 29, 2003 23:06]
Zedd

Posts: 286
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Nov 7, 2003 1:41
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  Well, here are 2 pics of the Carp and an un-scratchified Wakai. If the link works, that is.
  
  Edit: I fixed up the carp pics, I'm still working on the wakai (I'll probably have to redraw it...)
  
  They're still here.
- Zedd i Randir, Lord of the Storm


  
  Ryu
: 3 pictures done
  
  
  [Editted by Zedd on Nov 8, 2003 3:42]
MintMan

Posts: 4037
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Nov 8, 2003 24:23
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  The Belated Lesson 3: Drawing
  
  Hmm, I should have said something about this earlier. I guess I always assume that all the pictures I make for BD will hint enough toward this, but guess I am wrong.
  
  Every monster must have a Base Picture for each one of its forms and a Spell Picture for each one of its spells for each of its forms. In the final form, a creature is allowed to have one spell slot that alternates, so at most, a given creature can have up to twelve images (3 forms, 2+3+4 spells).
  
  The Base image should try and show as much of the monster as possible. Unusually shaped, long, or large monsters do not always fit nicely into a little square.
  It should be a good view of the monster, showing off a decent bulk of its features. It must have some sort of background on it. Typically, skies will be black. Exceptions include daytime monsters and monsters with black on them that would blend right into the sky.
  
  The Spell images should mix it up. Some should be full body shots; others should be close-ups on whatever portion of the creature is used in the attack (like an upper torso spewing flame). Spells should not, repeat, not have backgrounds associated with them. The monster should be floating over a black-and-white void with shades in between. Use the streaks to show motion or to highlight the direction of the attack. Tinges of color can be used in the white to show some point.
  Certain attacks require a background, such as an Earthquake spell.
  
  No image should ever feature any other living thing besides the monster which owns the spell. Only in rare cases are exceptions made (such as Kama's Triple Assault).
  
  Blackness is typically not actually coloured into the picture. Just a very dark outline is given to the drawing, and the rest can be filled in on even the most basic of graphical editing programs (like Paint) without any problem. This only works for black; other colors do not take well to solid filling when JPEG-compressed.
  
  

  The Wakai background did not look very fixed up, either. I cannot even tell what it is anymore. What is all that brown-ness to the right of it?
  
  The Carp looks good, although I know everyone will be comparing it to Magikarp. Well, people are idiots and do not know what Koi look like. My only fuss is with the backgrounds. It looks a little scratchy; you can actually tell where you coloured it in with the pencil. Try, like, selecting all of the water in the background and giving it a slight blur of sorts.
  Courage is good save the blue background. The haze around the Carp looks good, tho'. If there were just some way to feather from that haze to a pure black in the background, it would be nearly perfect. Nearly on account of the fact that it is pretty small. You have a lot of room to fill up in the pictures.... well, not really, but the Carp is small.
  
  EDIT: Good job on the Carp fix-up. Yeah, I guess it would be hard to try and put some fade in there after it had already been colored. Looks good, tho', with Courage in the dark.
  I still do not understand why you want to use the Wakai form. I mean, you already had the sweet looking snake drawn with some really great background work, and the Ryu does become a snake after one thousand years as a carp, so why not use it? I am sure the spells would transfer fine between the two forms.
  
  EDITEDIT: Oh yeah, did I ever get back to you about that attack for the carp? I would makes it Reverse Waterfall, as that is a pretty big thing with the dragons. You could draw the carp riding a waterspout or something hilarious like that. That is what I would do anyway.... if I could draw waterspouts. Um, well, just about anything would really work for that'un. You could even just make is something Japanese that says "Hey, I'ma dragon, and I'ma carp, too!"
  
  
  [Editted by MintMan on Nov 8, 2003 15:35]
wyvernofab

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Jan 24, 2004 15:41
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  since the peludas taken im thinkin about the tarrasqe. can it copy another move?(eg withdrawing into shell and name it shell?)
cheese monkey
MintMan

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Jan 24, 2004 20:57
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  Hooray! This post was resurrected! I likeyed it, and also needed to add some more sections to it.
  
  Actually, you can just take Shell and make it exclusive to the Tarrasque. It has a Shell, so it makes sense, right? Well, for its younger stage, I guess. By the time it gets older, I would expect it to have a cooler name.
  Reason being is that Nidhogg is gonna lose Shell. I am trying to think of replacements.... something more Nidhogg-y. It is quite the task, but I am up to it.
  I am just far too tired of its archaic spells and other people wanting to make monsters with really sucky spells because of it.
  
  However, WoA, I would be more worried about getting in some sample art before worrying about spells. That is every submitter's primary goal.
  
  Lesson IV: Skills
  
  Now, I thought I was gonna have this in the new FAQ... and I prolly am gonna add a Skill section in there anyway, or at least make one when BD:M4 comes out.
  
  Every monster must get three Skills throughout its development. Skills are largely non-combat oriented, but may be used during combat for interesting effects (or at least, they will be for the new battles system of BD known as M4 -- see the FAQ for more). Pretty much, something is considered a Skill if it could have use in the BD RPG outside of battle. Here are a list of skills I have thought up of from mythological monsters; there can always be more.
  
  • Corpse Devourerer: This monster specifically feeds on the dead. Health is attained by slaying foes with physical attacks.
  • Break: This monster commands a powerful force whicih may be used to reduce solid objects to rubble.
  • Terrorize: Any monster who is able to rout those around it in fear has this skill.
  • Flight: A monster possesses wings capable of propelling the monster through the air.
  • Celestial: Like flight, but done through levitation or cloudwalking, not wings.
  • Ferry: This skill must be had by any monster of a large size. It denotes that a familiar is large enough to carry a human passenger.
  • Landmass: Exceptionally large monsters that can be confused for terrains or in other ways provide habitation do not have ferry, but rather this skill.
  • Night Vision: This monster is accustomed to the dark and sees perfectly in it.
  • Torch: Something about this monster generates enough luminescense to fill an area and allow it to be seen in detail by all.
  • Wither: Foliage and other plantlife simply die in the presence of this skill.
  • Cutter: A monster possesses sharp blades or spikes able or specifically described to cut down plantlife as thick as a tree.
  • Stealth: This monster possesses invisibility or another method of obscuring itself from the view of others.
  • Medic: This skill allows for the care and recovery of other individuals.
  • Regeneration: This skill allows for the recovery from injury for only the owner of this skill.
  • Alert: This skill denotes especially keen eyes or a careful watch.
  • Phase: A creature with this ability is capable of moving through solid objects, as a spectre.
  • Track: This monster can locate specific objects or enemies.
  • Consume: Very gluttonous or hungry monsters that are capable of devouring large objects possess this skill.
  • Leap: Any creature that is capable of bounding great distances possesses it.
  • Accelerate: Any of the "fastest" monsters gets this skill which allows them to travel at an increased rate.
  • Swim: This monster is fully capable underneath an on water.
  • Burrow: Denizens of the dirt or others that are handy with tunnels use this skill.
  • Disarray: Any strange power to affect the mind is bundled under this skill.
  • Everlast: Those who hold this skill are especially hardy or possibly immortal.
  • Sacrifice: For some reason, this monster wounds itself, supposedly for some benefit.

  
  Well, that is a pretty list. Now, keep in mind that every skill is balanced. It may not seem like it, but no skill is superior to another.
  Example I: A monster with NightVision can see its enemy in the dark, but it cannot see him unless it too has NightVision. The Torch skill would allow both to see each other; however, when an ally is present, Torch works for it as well whereas NightVision would leave your friend in the dark.
  Example II: The levitation of Celestial may seem better than the wing propultion of Flight, but it breaks down whenever high skies are not accessible; Flight fails to the seemingly less powerful Leap whenever close, cramped quarters are present, such as in caverns.
  Example III: A monster with Landmass can carry more than any monster with Ferry, but so large is any monster with Landmass that no other monster could ever carry it; a Ferrying monster can easily be transported on a Landmass creature or possibly another Ferrying monster.
  
  
  So those are your skills. I am sure there are other ones which should be in there, like telepathy or at least some sort of communication power. I am still struggling with telekinesis. I hope this helped everybody! And remember, if you cannot find something on the list, ask if it is a skill. Skills are usually taken to be very broad things, too, so something on that list may have covered it already.
LeeTupper

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Jan 25, 2004 13:38
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   How exactly does the learning of skills run? If it is one per phase, then I'd say:
  Egg: Torch (Let's face it. This is THE skill for Alicanto)
  Fledgling: Alert/ Consume (not sure. It is a nervous creature that flees often, but the creature eats freakin' gold, so it's a tough choice.)
  Guide: Flight/ Leap (It can fly, but it may be preferable to give it Leap. Maybe run it all off of valor. Alert/ Fly off of low valor, due to being cowardly, and Consume/ Leap off of high valor.)
  
   If not phase based, that's just the order for the skills learned.
What is this arcane desert?- My current english teacher
  Do I dare ask why this looks like a potato chip?-my 7th grade english teacher, with a destroyed piece of homework
MintMan

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Jan 25, 2004 14:00
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  Helsnow it ain't based on one-per-phase! Anything with an egg would then become almost entirely worthless.
  
  In actuality, most monsters learn Skills after level ten. Certain ones get 'em early, but quite honestly, this are rare birds indeed. Most monsters lack much of any form to perform what they shall later in life (such as being an egg). It is not prohibited, tho'; give'em if you can fit'em.
  The final skill must be learned at level twenty-five. Other skills are peppered in between other changes to the monster, usually, to keep it always about to learn something.
  
  And no, Tupper, Torch was not made for the Alicanto. Has this not been gone over before? Torch is designed for things like Skinfaxi or Gullinbursti who have a magnificence that fill the sea and sky.
  Something like the Alicanto only produces a faerie fire from its wings -- little glows in the dark. What instantly discludes it from possessing the skill is that it is not bright enough to show that the victim was lured close enough to a cliff that he can stumble off it once the glows go away.
  Rather, the Alicanto would have NightVision, for it is apparently fully capable of seeing in the dark.
  
  I would say that this thing would get Flight; I have never read about the Alicanto possessing mad leaps. Leap is more of something for the Stollenwurm; something that is specifically described to leap long distances.
  
  Consume.... hmmm. It does it more than it can hold since it looses Flight after eating so much, and it does consume freakin' metal.... yeah, I guess that would work. Never thought about it having that. I always think of fat monsters having Consume like Behemoth and big-sluggy.
Zedd

Posts: 286
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Jan 27, 2004 3:43
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  Heck... I still have to think of some skills for Ryu... Erm... Any suggestions? It'd have to be able to fly, But past that... Call Storm? Not likely... Swim? wouldn't that just collide with fly?
- Zedd i Randir, Lord of the Storm
  
  
  [Editted by Zedd on Jan 27, 2004 3:45]
MadGoblin

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Jan 27, 2004 8:44
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  Emem forgot the weather-related skill for the peeps like Ryu and Raicho. I can't remember its name quite, but it has some influence on the weather condidtion of a terrain you're currently inhabiting (shock!), like increasing the random chance of rain or storm or something like that...
Lair of Mad Goblin - Why be sane?

MintMan

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Jan 27, 2004 20:40
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  Rightright, I remembered the weather-control ability after I made the post, largely because I was reading another that you posted in with the link to Ryu.
  Hmm, sky controlling? I dunno what that is called, so that is probably why I did not put it on the list. Yes, it would be the Ryu's ability, and probably his final one. It would come into mad-use for BD:M4 since it actually has weather in it.
  
  So Ryu is looking Swim (since it can live and breath underwater), Celestrial (a divine floaty guy, and no, this does not contradict with Swim -- it just cannot use them both at the same time), and [weather control]. Ima going to search right now for a good name for controlling the weather. There must be a name.... like Weather Wizard
  
  EDIT: Wow, I was going to say "Maybe it could be called 'Meteormancy'" because I wanted to throw something out there, and lo! there actually is a such thing.
  http://paganuskeltica.tripod.com/mancy.html
  Of course, like all Mancies, it is a sort of divination, but who cares? A name's a name.
  
  [Editted by MintMan on Jan 27, 2004 20:45]
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